A member of the late Chief Obafemi Awolowo political school of thought, Senator Femi Okurounmu, was a member of the National Assembly between 1999 and 2003. He was also involved in the activities leading to the 2014 National Conference. In this interview with OLAOLU OLADIPO, Okurounmu once again spoke of the need to return the country to the 1963 Republican Constitution. Excerpts:
Your view on the current government is well known to the public but some events in recent times have served to generate calls for the return of the country to regional (government) arrangement, what’s your view on this sir?
For me, if the country can return to the regional arrangement, which we had in the First Republic, it will be a very good idea. It will save the country the cost of governance. In Nigeria today, the cost of governance has become so crippling on the economy. With the situation of things as we speak, the country cannot afford this kind of presidential system that we are currently operating. We can no longer cope with the large government that we have in place now. I mean the number of government officials and their aides which are currently being maintained by the country. The number of agencies that are being maintained by the treasury and the problems that they pose can be addressed when the country returns to five or six regions at the very most. This will be a good idea as it would save the country some resources. It will also allow the various ethnic nationalities to be autonomous, to manage their own affairs and their resources. They will be able to generate their own revenue and spend based on their aspirations. It will also engender healthy competition among the various regions. It would be a very good idea if we could have it.
You said the idea will inevitably reduce the cost of governance but some people argue that such (reduction in cost of governance) could still be done within the current arrangement if officials work on lean government…
My thinking is that whether we return to the regional arrangement or not, there is the need for us to reduce the cost of governance. Officials in government whether the Federal or the 36 state governments will have to cut down on their salaries, emoluments and other benefits of office. To me, that is a given. This is something that must be done to save this country at this time. Look at the South West for example, we have six states making up the region with each having between 20 and 30 commissioners running them. The governors have so many advisers working for him too. Once you times the advisers of each governor by six, you will appreciate what I am saying. When we had the Western Region, which included the present day Edo and Delta States, we had few ministers but today, the cost of managing the eight states has become so enormous. The cost has ballooned. That shows you how bad the situation has become.
Apart from the change in the administrative structure that you are canvassing, what about the system of government? Are you also clamouring for a return to the parliamentary system too?
I have said it before in virtually all the various fora that I have been to in the past that the current presidential system that the country is running will kill the country if care is not taken. The presidential system is too expensive; the cost of having an election under the presidential election too is too enormous. The kind of economic downturn in the country cannot sustain it any longer. The presidential system also encourages corruption and abuse of power. The level of corruption that we have in Nigeria today is due to the nature of presidential system that we are practising because it gives too much power to a single individual with limited ability for checks from the institutions that should provide the checks; the chief executives, whether at the state or at the federal levels, are corrupt because the constitution gives the governor or the president powers that they keep abusing. They have the powers over the resources and coercive assets without any form of checks. The legislature because of the well embedded corruption has become ineffective in checking the chief executive. The National Assembly has become a rubber stamp for the President, the same thing in the states where the governors are behaving like the president and having their ways. If the President wants an executive jet, he sends a bill to the National Assembly and within two days, they will pass it without looking at the costs to the country. All this promotes corruption. All this happens because there is no viable opposition but that can’t happen in a parliamentary system of government. We have opposition within the assembly that forms the shadow government which invariably serves as a check on the ruling party. There is no such thing in the Presidential system, where all the parties become one once they are elected into government.
But there are opposition elements in the National Assembly who could possibly serve as viable opposition to the ruling government…
(Cuts in) We are using the word ‘opposition’ loosely. They are not opposition elements as you are trying to make them to be. For instance, how many of them (the opposition members in the National Assembly) rejected the luxury SUVs that were bought for them by the leadership of the National Assembly. How many of them opposed padding of the budget?
Don’t you think that the problem that you have highlighted could have been a result of lack of political culture and that these parties never grew organically?
The presidential system that we operate doesn’t allow for the growth and development of party culture. That is part of the problem and the reason why we have not developed politically. In a parliamentary system, the parties are bound to grow organically because it is the leader of the party that becomes the prime minister should his party have the required majority in the House. The party has to have a programme that it is selling to the people. They sell their vision or manifestoes to the people. The leader who is expected to be elected in his constituency only will however go round the country to sell the programmes of the party to the people.
I had the opportunity of meeting with the late Chief Ben Nwabueze who told me that the major reason for the adoption of the Presidential system in 1978 was to have a system that would ensure harmony and cohesion in the country, considering the fact that the parliamentary mode is very loose, what’s your take on that?
Everyone now knows that Professor Nwabueze was very wrong. This is because everyone in the country is now asking for devolution of power from the centre to the federating units. It is now a fact that the country cannot develop with a very strong centre. There is the need to devolve power considerably to the constituent units. A lot of other people are calling for a return to the regional arrangement that we had in 1963. Don’t forget that when (late General) Aguiyi-Ironsi came to power, it was Nwabueze that wrote the Unitary Decree that the late Head of State promulgated. The decree dissolved the old regions. His latter day agitation is nothing but hypocritical. He had always been advocate of a strong centre since the ’60s when General Ironsi came to power. A strong centre hasn’t benefited the country. It is the strong centre that has made us regress from a developing country to a poverty-stricken country. Nobody in Nigeria is happy with the current strong centre.
What powers being exercised by the Federal Government do you want devolved to the federating units?
We only need to go back to the 1960 Constitution; the powers are there for all to see. At that time, the powers exercised by the Federal Government were very few. At that time, most of the powers being exercised by the Federal Government were exercised by the four regions. The same can be done now, that is return to where we were coming from. I mean devolving power to what we now call the states. Each of the regions had its own constitution. The 2014 National Conference even went as far as recommending that the states have their own constitutions. They had their High Courts and even Supreme Courts as we used to have. They (the states) must be made to harness and develop the resources within their borders.
It’s been a year since the coming of the current Bola Tinubu led government. You initially had some reservations about it, have your views and position changed?
Nothing has changed! Or do you think the situation in the country has changed for the better? Poverty is still ravaging the land. Insecurity is getting worse. Every day, people are being kidnapped across the country for payment of ransom. Abuja, which is the nation’s Federal capital itself, is now becoming the epicentre for kidnappings and killings. Most of the states in the Northern parts of the country today have witnessed an upsurge in the spate of kidnappings and killings. Unfortunately, the security forces are helpless in tackling these problems. Even in the South, kidnapping is gaining ground. Criminals do kidnapping for ransom or for rituals. Travelling from one part of the country to the other has become so hazardous. When we talk about the cost of living, we are all living witnesses to the inherent problems being faced by the people. The cost of foodstuffs in the markets are beyond the reach of the people. House wives are crying except those who are wives of government officials.
President Tinubu is well known to you, it is on record that the two of you were in the trenches during the clamour for the return of the country to democratic rule. Do you have plans to meet him and engage him on these issues?
I don’t think it would be necessary for me to visit him and tell him the situation. We have the same views on issues such as restructuring, state police and even on return to parliamentary rule. Late Chief (Anthony) Enahoro had the same views on returning to the parliamentary system and regional government, we all share the same views on these subjects. Till his last days, Chief Enahoro was campaigning for these issues. So, these are our views. Now, he has the power to make these changes.
Do you think that he has the capacity to turn things around for the good of the country?
I believe he does. He has the capacity to turn things around. When he wanted to change the National Anthem, it took him only two days to do that.