Buba Galadima is a chieftain of the New Nigeria Peoples Party (NNPP) and a member of the Northern Elders Forum. In this interview, he speaks on the Tax Reform Bills before the National Assembly and the alleged French military base in Nigeria, among other issues, ANAYO EZUGWU writes
The chairman of the Tax Reform and Fiscal Policy Reform Committee has said the Tax Reform Bills is about fairness and justice, and its principles are to expand Nigeria’s tax base. However, northern governors say this is not possible. Also, northern leaders are saying withdraw the bill. What is actually the problem?
I first want to address an issue. I don’t want to comment on things based on North and South, regional, or even religious. And I don’t think that this bill is all about Northern Nigeria.
This bill is only fair to Ogun and Lagos, not South-West as a whole as I see it. The issue is also not about governors of Northern Nigeria, the League of Democrats or Northern elders. If there is any elder in the North, I assume that having reached nearly 75 years of age, I ought to be one of the elders.
The truth of the matter is that the press and academia are not doing very well in promoting national unity and cohesion. Every one of us is just talking about religion, tribe and where one comes from. It is very wrong. You don’t build a nation like that. It should be that the problem of a Kanuri man in Maiduguri should be the problem of an Awori man in Lagos.
That is how you build a nation, not segregating it into tribal or religious segments. So, having said that, I want to tell the world that many people who comment on this bill have not even read it. And if they read it, they have not studied the nuances of this bill.
I want to also say that most governors in Nigeria, not only in the North, are so puffed off because when this bill was being created by Taiwo Oyedele and his group, they had never consulted any governor outside Lagos. So, for them, it is an ego problem that it is only the views of the governor of Lagos that are in this bill.
The bill was presented to the National Economic Council (NEC), comprising all the governors, so it’s not fair to say it’s only Governor Babajide Sanwo-Olu that the committee consulted…
Was it taken to the NEC and discussed with the other governors when this bill was being developed? No. What did NEC say when they took it to them? What did they say? They say withdraw it. I’m talking to you about the view of other people, including myself, that it has become an ego problem.
And even if any governor as an individual tells Mr. President that he’s supporting him, let him tell that governor that he’s lying. All of them are speaking with one voice. I’m just trying to tell the world what is really on the ground.
So, this is the problem. Now, you are talking about expanding the revenue base, but you are not looking at the critical stage this country is in. If you increase any revenue, it will affect the economic status of the people of this country.
We are already crying of hunger. We are crying of poverty. We are crying of deprivation. Once there is any increase of 0.1 in the earnings of the people, it will affect them adversely. Even if it is good, this is not the time to bring more hardship to the people.
And we should be humane in what we are doing. And this revenue bill as submitted to the National Assembly cannot stand the test of time because the revenue bill has gone contrary to some provisions of the constitution.
It is within the purview of the Federal Government or any state government or local government to create an idea of expanding its revenue base. But the sharing of the revenue is not the responsibility of the Federal Government, nor that of the National Assembly.
It is of the National Assembly to the extent that when they look at the sharing, they will have to change the constitution by going around, so that they remove the authority of the revenue mobilization from that province.
That has not been done. And to say let’s do more consultation, so that people can comment on this matter, I don’t think it is a negation or a disrespect or even whatever against the president. It is not.
This is our country. If the president presents anything, we, the people of Nigeria, can say no. Our views should be respected because we put the president, the governors and members of the National Assembly there. So, they should respect our views.
It was recently reported that the president sent emissaries to Northern leaders. Did you come across those emissaries and what are those nuances that you say you object to?
People are already making their views known. I have my views. One of my views is that the president or the federal government has no business in sharing the expanded revenue net which is collected. It is the responsibility of the Revenue Mobilisation Allocation and Fiscal Commission. It is not that of the president.
They are the only people who have the right to share between the Federal Government, state governments, and local government, revenues of the nation. Even if that bill is passed, I want to assure you that people can go to court to nullify it because it is not their responsibility.
Have you seen the old formula of sharing and what is now presented to the National Assembly? They are a complete negation. That is why people are suspicious. And for us to remove that suspicion, let’s put all hands together. Let’s look at the bill dispassionately.
It’s a Nigerian bill, not a sectional bill or a personal bill of anybody. So, we should come up with what is acceptable to the nation because it is our revenue. It is not a personal revenue of anybody. Nigerians should understand this.
You are talking about distribution. I think section 72 of the proposed VAT bill says 60 per cent of derivation but Northern governors have said this is unacceptable…
Please, I object to you using the word Northern governors. You can say Nigerian governors or some governors. Please, the word ‘North’ should never be in your dictionary.
The governors are saying that attaching the distribution formula to derivation will only favour the South. You have mentioned Lagos and Ogun; shouldn’t the issue be that Northern leaders should worry more about the lack of productivity in their region?
There is no productivity, for example, in Lagos on how people make phone calls in Damaturu or Gombe. Why should Lagos now take the credit?
But I don’t want you to use the word Northern leaders or Northern governors. They are the governors of Gombe, Nasarawa, and Bauchi or whatever. They are not Northern governors.
They may belong to the old North. This word (North) you are using is the problem that is always bringing division into the country. We should avoid the use of religion, the use of tribe, and the use of geography for us to have one Nigeria.
Section 72 is about derivation; you produce, you earn, and if you are not producing, you cannot complain…
So, the telephone call I’m making in Damaturu is a production for Lagos because the headquarters of MTN is in Lagos. Is that what you are telling me?
I’m asking you to explain what that objection is…
VAT is a consumption tax; if you increase VAT by 0.1 per cent, prices in the country will skyrocket. It will affect everybody. And the situation in Nigeria now is that you don’t add any hardship on the people. That is what we are saying. Let’s stabilize the system first.
But those who propose the bills are saying that this is about fairness and equity, and people who don’t earn up to a certain threshold…
They don’t know Nigeria because they stay in palatial hotels in Lagos. Where does Taiwo Oyedele know? Does he know my village? The way he presented this bill shows that he does not know Nigeria and he has no history.
Ket me tell you something; members of his panel from this part of the country are already disowning the final bill that he sent to Mr. President. They were put in committees and each committee submitted its report.
But in compiling the general report, some ideas by some of the committees were completely set aside and he chose what he needed and took it to Mr. President and convinced him. Hear from me, please. Others may not be bold enough to tell you. That is the problem. They are already disowning it.
But they tell us. Why is he not generous enough when he collects all the committee reports and call all of them and sit down and look at these committees and adopt a final report to Mr. President, which he has not done.
He is dishonest. All I am telling you is that thank me for being bold to tell you what is underground. The nation should thank me.
Are you saying President Tinubu is running an underground system style of government?
Well, I don’t know. You are saying that. I didn’t say so. But at least the committee report I know has not been debated by members of that committee.
It is Taiwo Oyedele and the governor of Lagos who took the final decision and skewed the bill. It was in favour of Lagos and Ogun. I’m not mentioning South-West that is why I’m talking to you about those who will benefit.
Ogun is one of the states that will benefit. Because the agricultural products from this part of the country are taken to Ogun, processed and resent for us to consume. But the VAT is going to Ogun. Not Yobe where the products have been produced.
So, you have to listen to people. You may not like their ideas, but listen to them first and allay their fears. In this bill, a lot of people are talking underground that, look, anybody that has anything to do with anything finance in Nigeria, collection, distribution, all belong to one tribe.
These are what people are saying. So, they feel now that their bill should change. So. there ought to be some transparency. You talk to people.
There is nothing wrong. Everybody, every president, every government talks to people and allay their fears and explain the real issues behind what they are doing. If there is any objection, it is done behind the curtain.
When it comes out, then it is for people like us, who are not in government, to consume the product of what the government has developed. And there would be a consensus. Nobody can say, I have done this, no going back. No! We Nigerians would be the people to say that, not an individual.
What do you make of the conflict between Nigeria and Niger Republic over alleged Nigeria’s security arrangement with France?
You know that not many people understood the opposition to Nigeria’s position on Niger. That is number one. Number two, if you listen to General Abdourahamane Tchiani, what he said in Hausa, he didn’t say that France has a military base in Nigeria.
Nuhu Ribadu, when he’s denying what Tchiani said, said Nigeria does not have a military base. But Tchiani is saying that France has a military presence. The difference is that somebody is saying military presence, and somebody is saying military base.
They can both be right. There is no French military base in Nigeria but what Tchiani is saying is that there is military presence in Nigeria, and he mentioned certain locations, some buildings and certain hotels people should go and look at. He was not definitive. Go and investigate did not mean that he had said. Why didn’t the federal government carry out that investigation?
You see, people use words, English words or Hausa words. So, we should look at these issues dispassionately. And what is the problem that some people in this part of the country are apprehensive about the French presence in Nigeria? Because they remember history that in 1967, General Charles de Gaulle was the only European leader who voted to dismember Nigeria.
He did that by trying to influence Niger, Chad, Benin and Cameroon. But President Ahmadou Ahdijo of Camerron, François Tombalbaye of Chad and Hamani Diori of Niger resisted him. Then, the French used their power to overthrow the government of Diori and they deceived Ahidjo by telling him that ‘you are sick, so you have to abdicate’ because they wanted to remove him by military force and they couldn’t., while Tombalbaye was overthrown.
This history that people should know. They were able to influence Gabon, Ivory Coast, Zambia and Tanzania to support the dismemberment of Nigeria. How can France now, in this day, become the friend of Nigeria? People who have knowledge and history think otherwise. And they also remember, and there are quite a number of us who even wanted to join the military that knew what Niger has done to Nigeria.
We will ever remain grateful because they kept Nigeria as one entity. You can also remember that during the government of General Sani Abacha, he tilted towards France by even taking the accounts of Nigeria from London to Paris. And you know what had happened to him later.
So, we are saying that people should look at history. This is why people don’t see France as a friend of Nigeria. Of course, things change but to get close to France, they believe that somebody has an agenda. Maybe, because France has always thought of dismembering Nigeria, this is what is at stake.
So, the intelligence and the security forces in Nigeria should try to do some intelligence work to find out why some people are behaving in the manner they are doing. It is important. That is why you need experienced people in government to advise the government on what to do. No personal interest.
Do you think the people that are there now don’t have enough experience to run Nigeria?
If they have, they can’t fight Niger. After all, in government, whether military or democratic government, it is the people that make that government. If Nigerien people don’t want a military regime, they know how to deal with it, not us.
We will not dictate to them. And General Yakubu Gowon has said that times without number that we should not interfere in the affairs of another country.
The Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) protocol does not provide for that. Gowon is the founding father of ECOWAS; we should listen to him. he’s a man of peace.